Jesse the K (![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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dw_accessibility2010-02-14 12:12 pm
jesse_the_k) wrote in dw_accessibility2010-02-14 12:12 pm
Entry tags:
version 2 Explicit Comment Heirarchy Indicators
Howdy! Thanks to the useful comments on my previous post, I've revised my proposal and inserted it into the DW suggestion generator. Please leave comments and vote in the poll at the dw_suggestions community.
However, that channel doesn't support HTML tags, so I'm duplicating my post here so I can present my case visually as well as in text.
Title: Style Comments Page with Outline Indicators
Summary: Improve usability and accessibility when following comment threads, where indentation implies structural hierarchy. Especially for those of us using smaller screens (phones, netbooks) or screen reader/braille displays.
I floated this idea atdw_accessibility. Thanks to lightgetsin, jadelennox, zvi, rb, fish_echo, kyrielle, codeman38, sqbr, & turlough for helping me refine this proposal; you can read our initial discussion here.
http://dw-accessibility.dreamwidth.org/10606.html
Full Explanation:
The Problem
The structural hierarchy of comments—who is replying to whom—is implicit in the amount of white space between the left screen edge and the start of the comment. (How the comment begins varies, depending on the page's style: could be the words in the comment itself, or the user icon, or the optional subject title.)
For some of us inferring indentation doesn't work well. For folks with small screens—phones, netbooks, and large print users—it's difficult. For folks using audio or braille display, it's impossible.
My proposal is to provide a style that makes the outline of comments explicit with printing characters. Because we don't have enough jargon, I'll refer to these as "explicit comment hierarchy indicators" (abbreviated ECHI).
The ECHI would alternate Arabic numerals and alpha, concatenated without spaces and concluding with "period space." (I've rejected upper v lowercase as more difficult to disambiguate, and Roman numeral systems because they're less familiar.) The ECHI would be prepended to the "subject" string, or *be* the subject string if none is present (which would also provide a handy way to reference comments.) Each ECHI would unambiguously show its comment's place in the hierarchy.
Problem Samples
I'm a large print user. This screen grab shows how easy it is to lose the context of long discussion threads, even with "style=light".
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/jesse_the_k/SharedPix/LosingCommentContext.png
It's like browsing the web through a soda straw. Relatively few lines fill the screen vertically, so there's meager context to judge the horizontal indents. The screen grab is a Firefox/Mac window showing 20 pt fonts. There are two comments in the middle of a long thread in. The earlier comment uses 2/3rd screen width; its reply is indented 1/4 in further. Vertically there's just 14 lines of text plus two "header" lines containing user icons, subjects, usernames & dates.
This is how threaded comments appear now to those using screen readers, or any user adding ?style=flat to an URL for mobile browsing.
There is no information about comment hierarchy. In our initial discussionlightgetsin had never understood how sighted users were understanding who was responding to what.
Solution Samples
Approach 1: implement ECHIs in place of indentation:
Approach 2: implement ECHIs in addition to indentation:
Solution Discussion
In my perfect world, I would be able to select ECHIs & indent for any style, as a new option under "Presentation" for "Customize your theme."
http://www.dreamwidth.org/customize/options
That option would be:
with the first and second options selected by default
Alas, that may not prove possible.
If so, I see the following options:
A. No indent and ECHIs always on in the light style
B. Both ECHIs and indent always on in the light style
C. ECHIs selectable and indent selectable in the light style
D. Additional light style with ECHIs but no indent
E. Additional light style with both ECHIs and indent
Z. Indent always on in the light style (current case)
Options D and E require the least infrastructure, but require education to become accessible.
As a large print user, I'd prefer A (or D); regular print/mobile users may well prefer B (or E).
Option C does require some replumbing, but only for one style.
I'm hoping Z is no longer acceptable.
dw_suggestions community.However, that channel doesn't support HTML tags, so I'm duplicating my post here so I can present my case visually as well as in text.
Title: Style Comments Page with Outline Indicators
Summary: Improve usability and accessibility when following comment threads, where indentation implies structural hierarchy. Especially for those of us using smaller screens (phones, netbooks) or screen reader/braille displays.
I floated this idea at
dw_accessibility. Thanks to lightgetsin, jadelennox, zvi, rb, fish_echo, kyrielle, codeman38, sqbr, & turlough for helping me refine this proposal; you can read our initial discussion here.http://dw-accessibility.dreamwidth.org/10606.html
Full Explanation:
The Problem
The structural hierarchy of comments—who is replying to whom—is implicit in the amount of white space between the left screen edge and the start of the comment. (How the comment begins varies, depending on the page's style: could be the words in the comment itself, or the user icon, or the optional subject title.)
For some of us inferring indentation doesn't work well. For folks with small screens—phones, netbooks, and large print users—it's difficult. For folks using audio or braille display, it's impossible.
My proposal is to provide a style that makes the outline of comments explicit with printing characters. Because we don't have enough jargon, I'll refer to these as "explicit comment hierarchy indicators" (abbreviated ECHI).
The ECHI would alternate Arabic numerals and alpha, concatenated without spaces and concluding with "period space." (I've rejected upper v lowercase as more difficult to disambiguate, and Roman numeral systems because they're less familiar.) The ECHI would be prepended to the "subject" string, or *be* the subject string if none is present (which would also provide a handy way to reference comments.) Each ECHI would unambiguously show its comment's place in the hierarchy.
Problem Samples
I'm a large print user. This screen grab shows how easy it is to lose the context of long discussion threads, even with "style=light".
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk58/jesse_the_k/SharedPix/LosingCommentContext.png
It's like browsing the web through a soda straw. Relatively few lines fill the screen vertically, so there's meager context to judge the horizontal indents. The screen grab is a Firefox/Mac window showing 20 pt fonts. There are two comments in the middle of a long thread in. The earlier comment uses 2/3rd screen width; its reply is indented 1/4 in further. Vertically there's just 14 lines of text plus two "header" lines containing user icons, subjects, usernames & dates.
This is how threaded comments appear now to those using screen readers, or any user adding ?style=flat to an URL for mobile browsing.
Original post Base-level comment alpha's response beta responds to alpha gamma responds to beta delta responds to alpha gamma responds to alpha beta responds to base level comment gamma responds to original post
There is no information about comment hierarchy. In our initial discussion
lightgetsin had never understood how sighted users were understanding who was responding to what.Solution Samples
Approach 1: implement ECHIs in place of indentation:
0. Original post 1. Base-level comment 1a. alpha's response 1a1. beta responds to alpha 1a1a. gamma responds to beta 1a2. delta responds to alpha 1a3. gamma responds to alpha 1b. beta responds to base level comment 2. gamma responds to original post
Approach 2: implement ECHIs in addition to indentation:
0. Original post 1. Base-level comment 1a. alpha's response 1a1. beta responds to alpha 1a1a. gamma responds to beta 1a2. delta responds to alpha 1a3. gamma responds to alpha 1b. beta responds to base level comment 2. gamma responds to original post
Solution Discussion
In my perfect world, I would be able to select ECHIs & indent for any style, as a new option under "Presentation" for "Customize your theme."
http://www.dreamwidth.org/customize/options
That option would be:
View Comments (ticky) using indents to track threading (ticky) in my own style (ticky) in light style (ticky) using outline numbers & letters to track threading
with the first and second options selected by default
Alas, that may not prove possible.
If so, I see the following options:
A. No indent and ECHIs always on in the light style
B. Both ECHIs and indent always on in the light style
C. ECHIs selectable and indent selectable in the light style
D. Additional light style with ECHIs but no indent
E. Additional light style with both ECHIs and indent
Z. Indent always on in the light style (current case)
Options D and E require the least infrastructure, but require education to become accessible.
As a large print user, I'd prefer A (or D); regular print/mobile users may well prefer B (or E).
Option C does require some replumbing, but only for one style.
I'm hoping Z is no longer acceptable.